Posté le 15/05/2017 à 04:40 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
As it known, Wolfenstein and Doom (especially Doom) already has been ported to the all possible platforms practically since its first appearance on the PCs, however, unfortunately, there is not the Neo-Geo in the list of these platforms, Wolf- and Doom-porters doesn`t pay any attention to this system absolutely undeservedly.
And now I think - is it generally possible to port these 2 games to Neo-Geo, is this machine able to cope with them? If it`s possible to port these games, then what`s about to do it nevertheless?
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Posté le 15/05/2017 à 13:16 Membre depuis le 28/01/2003, 160 messages
The system can't do software rendering, that's why you don't see thoses types of games.
You would need to build a special cartidge with a writable graphics space to achieve this.
Posté le 15/05/2017 à 15:44 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
There is no way to to any type of rasters?
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Posté le 15/05/2017 à 16:02 Membre depuis le 27/04/2006, 59399 messages
The Neo-Geo is purely tile-based. On the Neo-Geo CD you could create tile graphics dynamically, but on the Neo Geo AES/MVS the graphics are fetched from a separate ROM in the cartridge (like the NES).
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« Tout homme porte sur l'épaule gauche un singe et, sur l'épaule droite, un perroquet. » — Jean Cocteau
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Posté le 15/05/2017 à 16:16 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
Ok for the tiles, but raycasting can be done with rasters (i.e. without the need of a framebuffer) but this is a really difficult task as cycle counting (if the hardware can't provide a int per line) have to be done
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Posté le 15/05/2017 à 16:19 Membre depuis le 27/04/2006, 59399 messages
avatarZeroblog

« Tout homme porte sur l'épaule gauche un singe et, sur l'épaule droite, un perroquet. » — Jean Cocteau
« Moi je cherche plus de logique non plus. C'est surement pour cela que j'apprécie les Ataris, ils sont aussi logiques que moi ! » — GT Turbo
Posté le 15/05/2017 à 16:24Edité par O_o le 04/09/2017 à 23:07 Membre depuis le 01/04/2002, 22005 messages
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Posté le 15/05/2017 à 16:24 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
So making a basic raycasting (no texture) should be possible
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 04:48 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
Zerosquare (./4) :
The Neo-Geo is purely tile-based. On the Neo-Geo CD you could create tile graphics dynamically, but on the Neo Geo AES/MVS the graphics are fetched from a separate ROM in the cartridge (like the NES).

Then, how managed the creators of these games to port it to the SNES (Wolf and Doom) and Sega 32X (only Doom), which are using an exclusively tile graphics too?
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 08:04Edité par O_o le 04/09/2017 à 23:07 Membre depuis le 01/04/2002, 22005 messages
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 11:44 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
About the special chip - I hear a modern manufacturers of cartridges for retro-consoles (mainly for a various clones of NES/Famicom & Genesis/Megadrive) replaces a mappers, which has been used in a cartridges in the past, with a programmable-logic devices.
I`m interested, will such trick work with Neo-Geo?
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 12:26 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
furrtek a été invité sur ce sujet.
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 13:40 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
Godzil (./12) :
furrtek a été invité sur ce sujet.

Actually, not users here knows the French.
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 14:58 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
I'm just calling Furrtek on this thread, this message is an automatic from the forum software
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Posté le 16/05/2017 à 16:25 Membre depuis le 06/09/2002, 18645 messages
VasiliyFamiliya (./13) :
Godzil (./12) :
furrtek a été invité sur ce sujet.

Actually, not users here knows the French.

Your are in a french Forum and a lot of people here are french
Merci de respecter les Forums Français qui concèdent d'écrire en anglais... devil
avatarLa Neo Geo CD à son site (en tout cas elle essaye...): http://neogeocdworld.info/
Le forum de la Neo Geo sur Yaronet: forums/264

Un petit site sur l'Atari Falcon avec plein de trucs bon pour votre poussin: http://falcon.ti-fr.com/
Posté le 16/05/2017 à 18:25 Membre depuis le 28/01/2003, 160 messages
One huge issue is your final image has to fit a plane of 16*16 tiles, with 15 colors per tile.
You could overlay 4 of thoses planes on the hardware.

And everything has to fit 256 palettes, keeping in mind you can't change all of thoses in a single vblank.

Good luck with the algorythm couic
Posté le 16/05/2017 à 23:51 Membre depuis le 11/10/2004, 478 messages
As HPMAN wrote, even if you have a whole computer doing the math and rendering inside the cartridge, you still have to give tiles in 4bpp and palettes to the NeoGeo.
The system just grabs fistfulls of pixels from the cart and throws them in line buffers at the right position. You can't do much in between that from the CPU...

You could go even more crazy by feeding the NeoGeo pixel by pixel, by syncing to the reset and pixel clock signals for example (166ns between pixels)
But then what's the point of using a NeoGeo just for its joypad ports and the TV output ? smile
avatarJe fais des trucs. Des fois ça marche, des fois ça marche pas.
Posté le 19/05/2017 à 07:37 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
Well, it`s mean that it`s won`t come in to port these games?
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Posté le 23/05/2017 à 01:31 Membre depuis le 29/05/2014, 24 messages
O_o (./7) :
doom on a 12mhz cpu ... well, forget it
maybe wolfenstein with agressive optimisations (like on megadrive) but only possible on neogeo cd


There's a version of Doom on the ZX Spectrum - uses a 3.5mhz Z80 as its CPU (Basically a slower version of the Neo Geo's sound processor)

I wonder if Doom may be possible on Neo Geo by using a large number of pre-stored pixel sequences (perhaps using less colours). Or maybe even a combination of this technique and mid-line and hsync raster changes.

However I think the Neo Geo's greatest asset is its huge cart capacity so maybe pre-rotated wall blocks and floor pieces can be stored and then scaled by the hardware? This would surely be the fastest way of doing things.

Anyone know how Duke Nukem 3D was made on the Megadrive? Maybe that can offer some clues. As far as I know the cart is just a standard cart - no extra chips. It seems unlikely everything is calculated in realtime since it runs pretty fast. I could be wrong but I don't remember the standard Amiga running anything texture-mapped that fast and that has a blitter.
Posté le 23/05/2017 à 03:52 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
CosmicR (./19) :

There's a version of Doom on the ZX Spectrum - uses a 3.5mhz Z80 as its CPU (Basically a slower version of the Neo Geo's sound processor)...

I can say even more - there is a version of Doom for the Commodore VIC-20 (proof is in this video since 18:06 moment).


However I think the Neo Geo's greatest asset is its huge cart capacity so maybe pre-rotated wall blocks and floor pieces...

Pre-rotated? Wait a minute, does Neo-Geo really can`t to rotate sprites at real time?
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Posté le 23/05/2017 à 10:39 Membre depuis le 27/04/2006, 59399 messages
VasiliyFamiliya (./20) :
Wait a minute, does Neo-Geo really can`t to rotate sprites at real time?
No. It can't even zoom sprites, only shrink them down.
avatarZeroblog

« Tout homme porte sur l'épaule gauche un singe et, sur l'épaule droite, un perroquet. » — Jean Cocteau
« Moi je cherche plus de logique non plus. C'est surement pour cela que j'apprécie les Ataris, ils sont aussi logiques que moi ! » — GT Turbo
Posté le 23/05/2017 à 10:48 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
Zerosquare (./21) :
Wait a minute, does Neo-Geo really can`t to rotate sprites at real time?
No. It can't even zoom sprites, only shrink them down.[/quote]

Oh, noooooo! #facepalm#
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Posté le 23/05/2017 à 12:06Edité par O_o le 04/09/2017 à 23:07 Membre depuis le 01/04/2002, 22005 messages
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Posté le 23/05/2017 à 18:15 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
O_o (./23) :
CosmicR (./19) :
O_o (./7) :
doom on a 12mhz cpu ... well, forget it
maybe wolfenstein with agressive optimisations (like on megadrive) but only possible on neogeo cd

There's a version of Doom on the ZX Spectrum - uses a 3.5mhz Z80 as its CPU (Basically a slower version of the Neo Geo's sound processor)
This is NOT a Doom port, this is a remake or demake with extremely degraded graphics and 3D capabilities
it was remade from scratch with ZX spectrum limitation in mind, it's not a straight port of the original source code
Like official Doom/Wolf3D on the SNES/Megadrive and other platform, most of them don't use the original PC code, and for some use the original asset, lots don't.
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Posté le 23/05/2017 à 22:48 Membre depuis le 29/05/2014, 24 messages
O_o (./23) :
CosmicR (./19) :
O_o (./7) :
doom on a 12mhz cpu ... well, forget it
maybe wolfenstein with agressive optimisations (like on megadrive) but only possible on neogeo cd

There's a version of Doom on the ZX Spectrum - uses a 3.5mhz Z80 as its CPU (Basically a slower version of the Neo Geo's sound processor)
This is NOT a Doom port, this is a remake or demake with extremely degraded graphics and 3D capabilities
it was remade from scratch with ZX spectrum limitation in mind, it's not a straight port of the original source code

I assumed the OP meant a version (rather than a direct port of source code) of Doom for the Neo Geo, like you had on the SNES, 32X or Jaguar, Playstation etc. Many of those suffered from compromises. E.g. no floors in SNES version, reduced window sizes, missing levels etc. The ZX Spectrum version of Doom is very impressive considering the limited hardware. If someone can do similar for the Neo Geo we would have a version of Doom to be proud of.

VasiliyFamiliya (./22) :
Zerosquare (./21) :
Wait a minute, does Neo-Geo really can`t to rotate sprites at real time?
No. It can't even zoom sprites, only shrink them down.[/quote]

Oh, noooooo! #facepalm#

Although 'Sprite Shrinking' is better because the image doesn't go blocky when you 'enlarge' it. Imagine how blocky the Art of Fighting games would look with sprite zooming. Instead you have perfect detail.

Hardware rotation of sprites would have been useful though smile
Posté le 24/05/2017 à 10:19 Membre depuis le 16/06/2001, 69190 messages
the neogeo sucks grin

Posté le 24/05/2017 à 10:38 Membre depuis le 30/06/2001, 70750 messages
Better! On eInk readers:
avatarProud to be CAKE©®™
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Posté le 27/05/2017 à 03:52 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
Meanwhile, a one more version of Wolfenstein 3D has appeared - at this time for Commodore 64/128 (but truly, with SuperCPU v2 and 16MB RAM), based on official sources.
Analogous version of Doom appeared even earlier.
Because of this it`s even more sad that it`s not result to port for Neo-Geo.
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Posté le 27/05/2017 à 15:41Edité par O_o le 04/09/2017 à 23:07 Membre depuis le 01/04/2002, 22005 messages
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Posté le 28/05/2017 à 05:15 Membre depuis le 14/05/2017, 28 messages
O_o (./29) :
why don't you start porting it ?

I just need a specialist who can adaptate original sources to the NG platform features. And at the same time to bring some changes to game play, to make this games more suitable for arcade game format (I`ll tell more details about this changes lates).
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